Time: Sun Aug 03 16:50:56 1997
by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA24219;
Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:51:22 -0700 (MST)
by usr09.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA16838;
Sun, 3 Aug 1997 16:50:43 -0700 (MST)
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 16:49:54 -0700
To: liberty-and-justice@pobox.com
From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: SLS: Are we a country with a constitution or not? (fwd)
The Constitution does not operate inside
the federal zone, according to the Downes
Doctrine, unless Congress wants it to.
It does operate inside the state zone, however,
and it can, and should, be enforced inside
the state zone.
Thus, Congress feels free to create whatever
form of government they want inside the federal
zone and for citizens of that zone, and they have
done so, by creating a legislative democracy,
in which public policy is supreme, NOT the
Constitution. For some background, read
"The Two United States and the Law" in
the Supreme Law Library at the URL just
below my name here. The income tax is
the best example, because Congress attempted
to impose this tax on the "worldwide income"
of all federal citizens, regardless of their
domicile. See Cook v. Tait for authority;
and regs at 26 CFR 1.1-1(a) thru (c). However,
there are no statutes which authorize the
liabilities defined in these regs. For this
reason, Gilbertson has challenged these regs,
for being an overly broad extension of the
corresponding statutes in the IRC, but he
found it necessary to establish his status
very carefully, before he could lay claim to
the standing required to do so.
Read the Guarantee Clause very carefully.
It does NOT oblige the United States to guarantee
a Republican Form of Government for itself --
ONLY for the several states. This now appears
to be a gaping loophole in the U.S. Constitution,
as far as fundamental Rights are concerned.
You will note also that the District of Columbia
has never joined the Union, and there is serious
doubt if they ever could, because the United States
has EXCLUSIVE legislative jurisdiction over the
federal zone. See 1:8:17 and 4:3:2. This means
that no state government can exist there, to compete
with the United States for jurisdiction over that zone.
/s/ Paul Mitchell
http://www.supremelaw.com
At 07:19 PM 8/3/97 -0400, you wrote:
>At 10:46 AM 8/3/97 -0700, you wrote:
>>The Downes Doctrine, which has evolved since
>>Downes v. Bidwell in 1901, works like this:
>>
>>The Constitution of the United States, as such,
>>does not extend beyond the limits of the states
>>which are united by and under it. This doctrine
>>was extended in 1945, in the Hooven case, holding
>>that the guarantees of the Constitution extend
>>to the federal zone, only as Congress makes those
>>guarantees applicable, by statutes.
>
>Tha is true and by reading the statute which defines the metaphor "Nited
>Staets" within each title, you can see whether it means federal states or
>the entire nation.
>
>>All federal citizens who inhabit the several states
>>are subject to the municipal (federal zone) jurisdiction
>>of Congress and, thus, they cannot invoke the Constitution
>>unless there is a statute which extends one or more of
>>its guarantees to them. They have no standing to do so,
>>under the Downes Doctrine.
>
>I disagree with this. The laws can only have jurisdiction if the 'offense'
>was committed on federal territory 'without' the several states by an act of
>the state legislature giving it to the feds and an act of congress
accepting it.
>ow can they have jurisdiction of people? Where is this located in the
statutes?
>========================================================
>Brad Barnhill
>e:bradbva@chv.mindspring.com
>========================================================
>"The government which steps out of the ranks of the
>ordinary articles of consumption to select and lay under
>disproportionate burdens a particular one because it is
>a comfort, pleasing to the taste or necessary to the
>health and will therefore be bought, is in that
>particular a tyranny."
> --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Smith, 1823.
> http://pages.prodigy.com/jefferson_quotes/
>========================================================
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Unsub info - send e-mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com, with
>"unsubscribe liberty-and-justice" in the body (not the subject)
>Liberty-and-Justice list-owner is Mike Goldman <whig@pobox.com>
>
>
========================================================================
Paul Andrew Mitchell : Counselor at Law, federal witness
B.A., Political Science, UCLA; M.S., Public Administration, U.C. Irvine
tel: (520) 320-1514: machine; fax: (520) 320-1256: 24-hour/day-night
email: [address in tool bar] : using Eudora Pro 3.0.3 on 586 CPU
website: http://www.supremelaw.com : visit the Supreme Law Library now
ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776 : this is free speech, at its best
Tucson, Arizona state : state zone, not the federal zone
Postal Zone 85719/tdc : USPS delays first class w/o this
As agents of the Most High, we came here to establish justice. We shall
not leave, until our mission is accomplished and justice reigns eternal.
========================================================================
[This text formatted on-screen in Courier 11, non-proportional spacing.]
Return to Table of Contents for
Supreme Law School: E-mail