Time: Tue Dec 02 08:12:59 1997
From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: SLS: The Waco Incident (fwd)
Bcc: sls

>does come, that's a bridge we cross at that time.
>XX: Well, I appreciate what you all are doing.  Keep getting the word
>JH: Thank you, sir.  We appreciate your call.  Mr. Hall, I think you
>alluded to it in the last hour.  You said a lot of folks were upset.
>You said a lot of folks were mad.  You said a lot of us are armed and
>yet at the same time we know there are still so many things we can do.
>One of the things, and I believe I would be correct in saying this,
>one of the things that most corrupt governments -- our system of
>government is not corrupt.  The people in it are corrupt, and one of
>the greatest things those individuals would fear would be an educated
>electorate.  Would that be correct?
>DH: I think you're exactly right.  I believe that common sense among
>all of us as Americans -- the only thing I can see an uprising would
>do would destroy the country.  Like you said, it's not time for
>anything like that.  We have a good government, we just have some bad
>people in it, and we have to take these people out, and we do it
>through due process and elections, that type of thing.  Guns are not
>the answer in my opinion.
>JH: Let's go to Missouri this evening where Ann is standing by.
>Hello, Ann.
>XX: Hi there.
>JH: How are you?
>XX: Mr. Hall, when you say that you're going to air this on your
>station in Oklahoma on the 19th of September, is there any way for
>those of us in the Kansas City, Missouri, area to get this?  Can you
>help us with this?
>DH: What I would do is call, probably an independent television
>station if you. . .
>XX: Okay, that would be 50 or 62.  They're the two independent.
>DH: . . .and they may already be taking the feed.  Now this will be a
>national feed.  It's a 140 stations that have already cleared.  I'm
>not sure -- I'm at home tonight, so I don't have a list of those
>stations, and there's new stations that are coming online daily.  It's
>quite possible already one of the stations in Kansas City are taking
>the feed and will air it at that time.  But if not, I would call the
>XX: Call the stations here in the KC area?
>DH: Yeah. . .
>JH: Just call up the station -- in fact, Mr. Hall, if she were to call
>one of them now and they already know they are taking it, I'm sure
>they would tell her.
>DH: That's right.  They will tell her.
>JH: So Ann, just call channel 50 and 62, I believe you mentioned there
>in your area.  Ask either one. . .
>XX: They're the two independent stations here, yes.
>JH: . . .Yes.  Call either one of them or both of them and ask them if
>they are taking the Waco program on the 19th and -- what time was
>that, sir?
>DH: I believe it's going to be either 7:00 or 8:00 Eastern time.  They
>will see that.  Promos will start on the show about the 20th of
>August, so they'll be seeing it on their station.
>JH: Fantastic.  Ann, thank you very much for your call.  Break time.
>"Washington On Trial" from the Peoples' Radio Network will continue.
>JH: Huntsville, Texas, reporting in.  Hello, Bill.
>XX: I really appreciate the programs that you have.  I think that talk
>radio has really revived and informed the electorate.  I think that's
>what Con gress and them are afraid of.  One question I had for Mr.
>Hall.  I was a personal friend here of the "Houston Chronicle"
>representative that covered that, and I thought from the day that it
>happened that things just didn't fit.  You don't dispense tear gas
>with tanks like they did.  But I never could get any response out of
>her to delve into it.  One thing that's bothered me, as Mr. Hall will
>remember.  They brought in two dogs too, they said [DH is laughing] to
>sniff out a conflagrant.  They came from Pennsylvania.
>DH: I laugh when I hear you say that.
>XX: Do you suppose that was to determine the cyanide concentration?
>DH: I'm not real sure what purpose those dogs had.  They of course
>said they were looking for accellerant and I just don't know.  It was
>almost to the point of being ridiculous to bring those dogs in there,
>as we looked at it, so I really don't have any idea what they were
>looking for other than just. . .I thought they were there to stage a
>play of some sort.
>XX: I felt maybe it was kind of similar to the rabbit test.  [I think
>he may mean the canary test, grin]  If the dog don't go in. . .
>DH: I wouldn't put anything past them.
>XX: But I had just never heard that mentioned.  I remember them flying
>those in there.
>DH: Those dogs that came in, and the people that were involved in that
>-- one of those people was a former FBI agent, and I believe the other
>one worked or had worked for the Justice Department that had that firm
>[that owned the dogs] when we checked those people out that had the
>dogs.  Again it was some of their people coming in to check.  Nothing
>independent about any of that.
>XX: Well, we appreciate what you're doing and we're looking forward to
>it.  Is this already set up for Senate hearings or what?
>DH: It isn't yet, but we're almost satisfied that it will be.
>XX: Okay, that's great.
>JH: Bill, thank you very much for your call, sir.  From Huntsville,
>Texas we move to Covington, Indiana.  Lee, hello.
>XX: I just wanted to call and tell you that I've been going around
>talking to Christian groups.  Last Friday night I went to a group near
>here and talked to 55 people.  We had Stu Webb there, and he's been
>travelling around Ohio and Indiana, and he talked for four hours.  I
>got his book, too, and a tape on him.  But I wanted to let you know I
>was working at it, and I appreciate you down there.  Also I've called.
>. .I sent you some mail, I don't know whether you got it or not.
>JH: I'll have to go back and double check it.  Our mail sometimes is a
>little slow, according to the volume.  The heavy amount sometimes
>slows it down.
>XX: The Attica station where I pick you up at 1:00 every night [WBQR
>FM] -- I've been taping your shows for the last two months -- they
>changed hands and they took you and Chuck [Harder] off.
>JH: Rascals.  But we appreciate the time they allowed us on.  Maybe
>they'll get us back.
>XX: Well, I don't know.  I think another station bought it that's tied
>up with the main news media.  I'm really disappointed because I have
>no way of picking you up.
>JH: Well, check shortwave radio, 11.950, and start checking around
>midnight.  [This should be WINB, Red Lion, Pennsylvania.]
>XX: Does it come on as a replay?
>JH: I believe so.  I'm not totally sure.  I'm passing on what I
>believe to be accurate information.  I believe it's around midnight,
>and you might want to try 11.950.
>XX: And I might say, too that I've called Senator Lugar's office
>[Richard G. Lugar, R-IN] several times and I've called Senator Coats
>[Dan Coats, R-IN].  Now Senator Lugar is running for office.  I've
>been out here working against him, trying to get him beat, because
>he's selling us down the creek.
>JH: Well, sir, we've got to all get in this thing and work together
>just as Mr. Hall said earlier.  There is a way to do it, and it is by
>getting involved in the system.  If we've got bad people in it, let's
>get them out.  Let's put some decent people in there.  Back to the old
>adage of Edmund Burke -- we've said it I don't know how many times --
>"Evil prospers when good men do nothing."  If we're not doing
>anything, that's why evil is prospering.  We've got to change that.
>XX: I called six to ten Congressmen last week and I just tell them we
>don't like this GATT, we don't like NAFTA, we don't like gun control,
>we don't like. . .and also I called the Senators, too, like you
>recommended. . .
>JH: Thank you, sir.
>XX: . . .about this biological diversity, and I called them about
>that.  Well, nice talking to you sir.
>JH: Lee, thank you very much and just keep up the good work, sir.
>Thank you.
>XX: You might not remember me.  I'm the one that was in the
>legislature for 24 years.
>JH: Oh, yes!  Okay!  Absolutely!  Well God bless you, sir.  Yeah,
>yeah.  You know, I'm terrible on names, but the voice kept ringing a
>bell and I was saying to myself, "I know I've talked to this gentleman
>before.  He has been involved in government."  Great!  All right!
>XX: You talk to thousands of people, but you do a wonderful job.
>JH: Thank you, Lee.  I appreciate your call.  Keep up the good work.
>We move from Covington, Indiana, to the great State of Kansas where
>Steve is holding, and good evening, Steve.
>XX: I want to inform the people across the country. . .Steven Higgins
>started out in Omaha, Nebraska, for IRS in 1961 and then he was
>transferred to Dallas, Texas, in 1963.  Then he had a big promotion
>after that -- he went up the ladder fast.  He went to Chicago, then to
>Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and then back to Houston, possibly 1972.
>I was wondering what Mr. Higgins was doing this date.
>JH: Mr. Hall, was Mr. Higgins a scapegoat in this situation?  [Steven
>Higgins was in charge of the BATF at the time of the initial assault.]
>DH: I don't think so.  He was a big part of it and of course he's not
>working now, but he does draw a government pension.
>JH: I mean, was he a sacrificial lamb?
>DH: Well I think that he may have been that to have got the heat off.
>That was the word we got early on that the five people that was
>dismissed by Bentsen [Treasury Secretary Lloyd Bentsen] was basically
>to get the heat off. . .and that was from some of the field agents.
>The field agents themselves will tell you, many of them will, that
>this was basically a cover-up and this was the ATF that I talked with
>in this respect.  Also earlier on, you talked about Ann Richards of
>Texas.  She knew full well that that story was fabricated.  We have
>sources with the ATF that have told us that.
>JH: All right.  Ladies and gentlemen, we're up against a break.  Let's
>take our break at this point and again remind you that our telephone
>number is 1-800-TALK-YES, 1-800-825-5937.  General Manager of KPOC
>television, Ponca City, Oklahoma, David Hall is with us.  Washington
>On Trial will continue.
>JH: Back to our phones.  Kansas City, and Ann is on-line.  Hello, Ann.
>XX: Hello.  I want to thank you both for what you do for our country,
>your perseverance and your research.  Possibly I'm asking you a stupid
>question.  In listening to the Senate Whitewater hearings some of the
>times they referred to the Waco meeting with Roger Altman and the
>Treasury Department.  Is that because the ATF is under them?  I feel
>like Bentsen is buried to his ears [? garbled here] in this Waco.
>JH: Of course, Mr. Hall, correct me if I'm wrong, but the BATF
>certainly is part of the Treasury Department.  The buck stops, at
>least in theory, with Lloyd Bentsen there.  As far as the Waco meeting
>itself, I'm drawing a blank right now on exactly what they might have
>reference too there.
>DH: I'm doing the same thing.  One thing that comes to mind -- all of
>these people are from that area, basically from Waco.
>XX: I know they are, and I really feel like there's some motive there
>besides the BATF wanted to get more money for themselves.
>JH: Well you remember of course at that time the BATF was about to be
>disbanded.  The talk around Washington was that they were an
>organization that had served their purpose, they were not needed any
>longer.  They basically were the Prohibition Police when they came
>into existence, and when the Prohibition Amendment was repealed, there
>was no reason to keep them.  They added tobacco and firearms into it
>and tobacco is not near the problem certainly that it was at one time.
>Firearms are not near the problem they make it out to be.  So they
>were about to be disbanded or at least merged with some other
>organization, and they needed -- and it has been freely admitted --
>they needed a feather in their cap.
>XX: It seems like there were other motives.  I'm wondering about the
>property as well as. . .
>JH: Mr. Hall, who has the property?
>DH: The Branch Davidians have the property.  There's 77 acres left and
>900 acres that was there, and they do have that property.  My
>understanding is they're going to, probably in the near future, set a
>church up on the site.
>JH: So there will be reconstruction on the site?
>DH: That's the information I have at this time.  Another thing that
>might be interesting to note, the ATF code name for this operation was
>JH: Exactly.  It was. . .even as they state in their report, it was to
>be a dynamic entry, and by that they mean a "showtime" entry. . .it
>was flash-bang grenades, it was yelling and screaming, it wasn't going
>up to the door and knocking and on the door and saying, "We have a
>warrant.  May we come in?" as a normal situation would be.  It was
>literally as the name suggests, showtime.  Ann, thank you.  Let's move
>from Kansas City to Maryville, Tennessee this evening.  In Maryville,
>Tennessee, it's Tom.  Good evening, Tom.
>XX: This is the first time I've ever heard your show, and I've been
>doing research myself for the past four or five weeks and have been on
>some talk shows around here bringing on some stuff on regionalism and
>the government.  Very quick question, I want to get on and off.  One,
>will the tape that has been made be available for sale, and if so,
>where can it be gotten?  And number two, I have heard rumor, cannot
>confirm, do not know, were there actually British SAS or foreign
>troops at the Waco scene during the time period?  Thank you.
>DH: Okay, in answering his question, Jerry, we know that British
>Intelligence -- now who they were. . .you know, I assume that British
>Intelligence is like the CIA, I don't know that.  All we know is that
>they were with British Intelligence.  I, again can't say who they were
>with.  There was another question, I forgot what it was.
>JH: Okay, the other question was are you going to make the program
>available in the form of a videotape?
>DH: To my knowledge right now, I think that through your network it is
>going to be made available.
>JH: Good.  Okay.  We'll certainly, when we get the full information on
>that, we'll pass it along to folks.  Ladies and gentlemen, again check
>your local listings.  September the 19th will be date of the program.
>. ."Waco:  What Really Happened", or at least an investigative report
>on Waco.  Is that the working title, "Waco: What Really Happened"?
>DH: No, it's "Waco Incident:  The True Story".
>JH: "Waco Incident:  The True Story".  Check your local listings and
>see the stations in your area that will be carrying it.  If not,
>encourage one of them to carry it.  It will be made available on a
>nationwide feed by a satellite of course, and if they need more
>information they can contact, well they can contact, I guess, Mr.
>Hall, they can contact you at KPOC, the stations can.
>DH: Right.
>JH: Ladies and gentlemen, stay with us.  It's break time.  We'll be
>back with your calls at 1-800-TALK-YES, 1-800-825-5937.  "Washington
>On Trial" from the Peoples' Radio Network will continue shortly.
>JH: And to our phones to the great State of Idaho, and Jim is on-line.
>Hello, Jim.
>XX: Yeah, I have a question about the Waco incident.  Seeing that
>there are a lot of people against the new world order, and there are a
>lot of groups organized, both religious and non-religious, that kind
>of watch out for each other and are preparing for the worst, does your
>guest seem to think there'll be more of these incidents.
>DH: Of course early on we had information that the Justice Department
>was looking at four or five different groups, and I think that since
>our story has started, and a lot of the information has been broken,
>that they're going to be a little reluctant about accellerating
>attacks against religious organizations.  I think that it slowed them
>down to a great deal, a great degree.  I've talked with people in the
>Justice Department, John Russell, who's an aide to Janet Reno, and of
>course he initiated an action against a church in Minnesota back four
>or five months ago and I've talked with him about that and different
>things.  I believe the trend right now, their trend would be to
>low-key it, keep quiet for a while, and I think that's what they're
>doing.  They're just sitting still.
>XX: You mean they'll use the IRS?
>DH: Well, I don't know that they're going to use anyone to attack
>anyone.  I think that right now they run the risk. . .you know, we
>have basically here information that's going to indict them.  And I'm
>being quite frank about that.  I don't think they want any more
>problem.  I think they're preparing for the fight on the front that
>they've got coming at them right now, and I think that the Clinton
>government has that, you know, they know this front is moving towards
>them.  I can't talk to any Senator or any Congressman that doesn't
>already know about information that we have and has already. . .you
>know, people across the United States have written letters to them and
>we even had some of the Congressmen call us.  So, I would encourage
>people to continue to write letters because certainly the FBT, ATF,
>Internal Revenue Service, they know these things are coming, and
>there's people that are working in areas that probably you don't even
>know about at this time, like re-structuring the IRS.  Bills and
>different things are being written.  So I think. . .I don't think that
>there's any need for anyone to. . .I wouldn't want to encourage anyone
>to think about arming themselves, doing maneuvers, things like this.
>I don't think that that's necessary.  I think that government is
>pushing towards the GATT bill, but I don't know that that's going to
>be passed.  The Congressmen are telling me they're not going to vote
>for it because I think that talk radio has played a big. . .it's the
>only thing that can stop it at this point in time, and probably will.
>JH: Jim and Mr. Hall both, I believe that you will agree with me, that
>our adversaries -- and I mean that only in the sense now that they
>would wish to have socialism in this nation and we would wish for the
>Constitutional Republic that it is supposed to be -- our adversaries
>are not dummies, they're not fools by any stretch of the imagination,
>and they know about the undertow, they know about the undercurrent
>that, Mr. Hall, you referred to earlier, they know that a lot of
>silent people -- and by that I mean people who are not big campaign
>contributors, people who are not party attendees in that they don't go
>to parties and the teas for the candidates, but folks who vote and
>folks who pay taxes and folks who have jobs and as Mr. Hall suggested,
>folks who are armed.  They know they are upset.  And the last thing
>they want to do is have their house of cards come tumbling down around
>them.  They've done very well, thank you, they've done very well
>taking us over with gradualism.  They've done very well with the old
>thing of two steps forward and one step back.  And I don't believe
>they're going to do anything right now with people watching to change
>that.  I think they're going to continue their course and just play
>the same game they've been playing.
>XX: Well, I sure hope so, because I've seen an accelleration in the
>pace of the gradualism in the last year.
>JH: Well I agree with you that certainly has happend, but I believe
>that probably because of Waco, and probably -- and I say this and hope
>that people don't take it the wrong way -- Bill Clinton is probably
>one of the best things that has happened to the United States of
>America in the last 50 years, because he has galvanized the American
>people and he has awakened more people than anybody else I know.  Mr.
>Perot and Mr. Clinton are responsible getting more people involved in
>the political process than probably anyone else in modern-day history.
>Mr. Perot did it in a good way, Mr. Clinton did it in a roundabout
>way.  But folks are fed up.  People are tired of all this stuff and
>they're looking for answers, and if they don't find them pretty
>quickly, they're going to manufacture the answers themselves by
>getting rid of a bunch of scoundrels and scalawags, putting,
>hopefully, some decent people in their place, and once we do that,
>hopefully we will not repeat or continue to make the mistakes of the
>XX: A good grand jury investigation into Bill Clinton would sure make
>him scared, wouldn't it?
>JH: A good grand jury investigation led by prosecutor who would not be
>afraid of losing his nice, cushy job.
>XX: Exactly.  There ain't very many of them.
>JH: Jim, I appreciate your call, sir.  Thank you.  How many, if I
>might just
>    use the term Mr. Hall, how many common folks have you and
>reporters and your team talked to -- John Does, Mary Does, how many
>have you talked to, and what seems to be the consensus of the people?
>Do they seem to think that Waco was a necessity?  Do they think it was
>murder?  Do they think it was an accident?  What do they think?
>DH: We've talked with people all over the country, and people believe
>it was out and out murder.  Locally here, we're involved in the
>different cities that surround us because of our news department, with
>police departments and things.  We've shared information with them
>about Waco.  Of course, they have certainly a different outlook on the
>FBI, the ATF and the United States government than they did, say a
>year ago.  Of course, we're dealing with patrolmen, chiefs of police
>and people like that.  Other people out on the street we encounter on
>a. . .basically in a daily business.  We have locally here, the
>interest in the story that we're doing, we have people call the
>station every day locally wanting to know about this story.  So
>there's a lot of interest, and it's waking up a lot of people. These
>people here are talking to the same people in Congress and Senate that
>I talk with because the Senators and Congressmen tell me.  So they,
>you know, we've stirred up a hornet's nest here and it's going to run
>its course.  We've pledged ourselves to see this thing out.  Normally,
>the normal thing you do with a story like this is you, well you don't
>normally have a story like this, I can't say that with this type of
>thing, but the normal thing would be that you do your story and then
>let the chips fall.  But there was so much wrongdoing in this thing
>that it. . .all of us that were involved with it, it took us out of
>the scope of the news business.  It took us out of the scope of the
>news business.  It took us into a different scope altogether, because
>we were fearful that the people that were involved in this atrocity --
>and I have to call it an atrocity -- would not be prosecuted, would
>not be put under a microscope and looked at, and so we made that our
>job, right along with doing the movie.  We didn't have to take
>criminal investigators down there.  We didn't have to go to court.  We
>could have put this thing off and done it this way or that way, but we
>had a drive.  We saw -- and I think each and every individual that was
>involved in this story -- saw this country just crumbling around us
>here, and that we couldn't, you know, we somehow had to do something
>about it.  So that's why we took all the actions that we did, the
>legal maneuvers and the Senate Judiciary Report and all those things.
>As the months of September and October roll along, I think more and
>more people will hear about it in Congress and in the Senate.
>JH: Ladies and gentlemen, let's take our break.  When we come back, we
>will continue with our guest, David Hall, General Manager of KPOC,
>Ponca City, Olkahoma, talking about their investigation into Waco and
>the television special that will be coming up on the 19th of
>September.  Your calls at 1-800-TALK-YES when we continue in two
>JH: And Laredo, Texas, on-line.  Darrell, good evening.
>XX: Just a couple of comments, then I've got a question of your guest.
>A little breath of fresh air, maybe. . .I noticed over on C-SPAN today
>they were discussing the anti-crime bill.  There were Congressmen
>Gekas and McCollum [George W. Gekas, R-PA and Bill McCollum, R-FL],
>all Republicans incidentally, that were violently opposed to it, and
>they were in the House Rules Committee and they were putting on some
>pretty good arguments in there about how they can stop it.  You know,
>whether or not it'll work, but at least we've got a couple of them up
>there on our side.
>JH: Keep calling and writing, absolutely.
>XX: In my pre-For The People days, when Waco first hit the news, I was
>taken in like I think probably 95% of the Americans were, that, hey,
>you know, we've got something going here, and our government's taking
>care of it for us.  But the longer it went on, the more I could see
>through it and the more information I get on it, the more I'm amazed
>at how the government is just running rampant over the People.
>JH: Regrettably, sir, probably the vast majority of the American
>people were taken in.  The coverage was very slanted, the information
>that was being released was very slanted.  It's no wonder that many of
>us were taken in.  But as you suggest, in the aftermath a lot of us
>have had our eyes opened.
>XX: Yes indeed.  Mr. Hall, this telecast you're going to put on
>September 19th, is that going to be on any network transmission?
>DH: A lot of the independent stations, and there will be some network
>stations that carry it, it'll just be up in the air, and they'll pull
>it down.  There's about 140. . .in your area, I'm not, I don't know if
>there's a station there that's going to carry it or not.  I know that
>Dallas has three stations carrying it.  Houston, there's a Houston
>station that's carrying it.
>XX: If it's not in Spanish, I probably won't get it down here.  I do
>have satellite, though.  Will it be on any of the satellites and can
>you give me the number?
>DH: I don't know the number of the satellite, but it will be on
>satellite and it won't be scrambled or anything, so anybody can pick
>it up on satellite.
>XX: How can I find out without looking through all 487 satellite
>DH: If you call the station tomorrow, somebody there could tell you.
>XX: Can you give me a number, please?
>DH: It's 405-767-8827, and somebody there can tell you.
>XX: Okay.  You're making me proud of the Okies.  Even we don't see the
>Cotton Bowl much any more.
>DH: I was in in Waco not long ago. . . or down to Laredo -- I've been
>there a time or two -- and I know some people there, at any rate I
>thought I'd pass that on to you.
>XX: Next time you're this way, give me a holler and we'll get
>together.  Good talking to you.
>JH: 1-800-TALK-YES, 1-800-825-5937.  Snyder, Texas, staying in the
>Lone Star State. Bill, good evening.
>XX: Thank you so much for the show you're putting on for us tonight.
>The question I have is this.  The people who have been sentenced, I
>think unjustly, down in Austin after the massacre we had there, what
>is the possibility of those poor people being released from prison?  I
>don't think they should be there to start with.
>DH: I believe that probably the attorneys, or other attorneys, will
>probably file for a new trial.  Those people, by the way, are in
>Oklahoma, some of them are, today, at the federal reformatory at El
>Reno.  [About 50 miles west of Oklahoma City.  Ponca City is about
>halfway between Wichita and Oklahoma City.]
>XX: At El Reno.
>DH: And we're in touch with some of those people.  Let's see, I'm
>trying to think. . .Livingston Fagan is there, and Renos Adrian [sp?],
>he's there.  And then at Three Rivers, Texas, there's a couple of them
>there and one of them in Louisiana.  But I do believe that the
>evidence that we're bringing to the Senate will have something to do
>and have an impact on their situation.  [Three Rivers is about 60
>miles northwest of Corpus Christi, about a third of the way from
>Corpus Christi to San Antonio.  You can find Louisiana on your own.]
>XX: Well, listen, you don't know how much I appreciate what you're
>doing.  My hat's off to you.
>DH: Well, thank you very much.  Our agenda has been to get the right
>people prosecuted and do something to get these boys out of jail, and
>that's what we. . .
>XX: We just don't seem to have enough people in the world like you.
>DH: [Laughing] Well, I'm sure they're out there.
>XX: Well, we really appreciate you, we also appreciate our radio
>station here in Snyder, KSNY, for bringing your show to us.
>JH: Absolutely.  We thank the station.
>XX: Thank you so much.
>DH: You bet.  I want to say something, Jerry.  People in the cities
>where the radio stations are carrying you all -- and I say that as an
>Oklahoman, "you all" you noticed -- they should be proud of those
>JH: Well, in Alabama we said "you'uns" rather than "you all", and I
>guess we all have our differences there.  We certainly appreciate our
>affiliate stations.  Without them, obviously, the program would not be
>on the air.  Let's cover again, for folks who might just be tuning in
>-- of course we're talking with David Hall, the General Manager of
>KPOC in Ponca City, Oklahoma.  If you're a regular listener, you will
>remember back in late June, I believe it was, Mr. Hall and his
>daughter, Christina, were on.  Christina is an investigative reporter,
>a journalist who had been in the Waco area and had been gathering a
>lot of information for an accurate report, the truth on Waco.  That
>work will be contained in a two hour special program that will be
>available for viewing across the United States of America on many
>independent as well as some network television stations -- consult
>your local listings.  It'll be on the evening of September the 19th of
>1994.  Eastern time is going to be 8 or 9, is that correct?
>DH: That's correct.
>JH: All right.  If you want to check with your local station, check
>first maybe with your VHF or UHF independents, then check with the
>others.  If nobody is carrying it, encourage them to do so.  Now, Mr.
>Hall, what kind of clearance would a local station need?  Do they just
>contact KPOC about that?
>DH: We have -- I don't have the number here at the house -- the
>syndicator is in California that's shooting that up, and Ray Horn
>[sp?] is handling that.  The number is at the station, and if they
>call him direct, it is on a barter basis.
>JH: So they can call the station and make arrangements at least have
>the station get the number for the syndicator?
>DH: Right.
>JH: And that number again is 405-767-8827, I believe, for the TV
>stations that might want to get in contact with the syndicator.  All
>right, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to be taking our break.  When
>we come back, we'll be wrapping up this evening with our guest, David
>Hall, General Manager of KPOC, talking about Waco, the truth on Waco,
>the results of their long, and I'm sure very expensive, investigation.
>Finding out about the cyanide gas, finding out about. . .well, just
>many terrible things that a lot of us believed and a lot of us felt
>was the case, and the investigative work of Mr. Hall and his crew
>there at KPOC have pretty well borne out exactly what many of us
>feared -- that it was indeed virtually an outright murder of
>individuals inside that church complex.  We'll be back in two minutes.
>[This heart-breaking poem is called "Lost Laughter"]
>Yesterday, the air was free and the great bird ruled the sky.
>A dream, an idea, time had come and brave men went off to die.
>The eagle soared with hypnotic grace, clouds echoed her screams.
>No one had to say a word, so long ago it seems.
>A wind would blow across the land and every child would feel its 
>	breeze.
>"God bless mommy, and daddy, too!" before bedtimes on their knees.
>"I want to go out and play.  I want to catch a fish."
>"Let's go pet the puppies, now.  I want to make a wish."
>But time waits for not a soul, so quickly passing by.
>Lives would be far too short, the children were to die.
>"Mommy!  There's a bad man outside!  I'm hungry and I'm thirsty, too."
>"Why will little brother sleep forever?  Is what they say about Heaven
>	true?"
>"My eyes are burning really bad and I cannot see my friends!"
>"The fire is so very hot!  Mommy, please make it end!"
>Children's blood now stains our flag, tonight they play on streets of 
>	gold.
>Never to see those bad men again, never to grow old.
>We watched it all come about, the machines of wars of men.
>We did nothing to help those children, can they forgive us of our sin?
>Where was the majestic bird that day?  She did not take to flight.
>Listen, citizen, to the wind, and hear the children scream tonight.
>[end of poem]
>For the seventeen children, ladies and gentlemen, we must never
>forget.  We must remember tonight, tomorrow, the next day, the next
>week, the next month, the next year, the next generation. . .never to
>let it happen again.  And thanks to the works of Mr. David Hall,
>General Manager of KPOC and his investigative news team, on the 19th
>of September, the American people will have an opportunity to see what
>really happened, to find out about what happened on that April the
>19th, 1993 day, when 218 years before, the fire from the muskets at
>Lexington and Concord echoed in what was supposed to be freedom and
>liberty for all of us.  Mr. Hall, the American people owe you and KPOC
>and no doubt a lot of your employees a debt of gratitude, sir.  I want
>you to know a lot of us are very appreciative for your work.
>DH: Jerry, what you just said -- we go to bed with tears and wake up
>of a morning about those kids, and it brings tears to your eyes to
>think about that.  We're going to continue on until -- with your help
>and people like you across this nation -- we're going to bring these
>people to justice.  I want to say that [voice cracks]. . .it chokes
>you up thinking about those kids. . .and that's been our main drive
>and once again to get these boys out of jail, and you're doing a
>wonderful job.  You know, I'm at a loss of words here. . .that poem
>about got me.
>JH: Well, sir, I tell you what.  There's enough for us to remember.
>In fact, I think we've had enough martyrs in the United States in
>modern day.  I think we've had more than enough actions after the
>Weaver situation, the Waco situation, and many others that we could go
>into.  We've had enough of that.  And it's time for the American
>people, it's time for We the People of the United States of America to
>take our government back, to get involved, to work in the system, to
>change it, to throw the bad out, to keep the good, and go forward and
>never have to think about a Waco again.  Sir, I appreciate you and I
>hope you'll continue to keep us informed.  Again, ladies and
>gentlemen, on September the 19th, check your local listings between
>8:00 pm, 9:00 pm Eastern time for the Waco story being brought to you
>of course from the folks at KPOC.  It'll be available across the
>United States.  Check your local listings.  Mr. Hall, God bless you,
>sir.  Thank you for being with us this evening.
>DH: God bless you.
>JH: And ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for allowing us to share
>this time with you tonight on "Washington On Trial."  For the Peoples'
>Radio Network, I'm Jerry Hughes.  Good night America.
>The KPOC videotape is available by calling (405)767-8827 or you can
>write them at KPOC-TV, 114 W. Central, Ponca City, Oklahoma, 74601.
>The cost is $23.45.  (Cheap when you consider another cost could be
>your liberty.]
>Late-breaking news -- in addition to the numerous lawsuits filed
>against the government by surviving Davidians or relatives of those
>murdered as well as the $150 million wrongful death suit against Janet
>Reno, there has been a suit filed by former Attorney General Ramsey
>Clark.  If you're not familiar with Clark, he is quite liberal.  His
>is a multi-BILLION dollar suit.
>Clark's suit was filed in February, 1995, on the anniversary of the
>original raid.  Did you hear about it on your news or in your
>newspaper?  Probably not.  He also made the announcement at Mt. Carmel
>in front of at least 50 media trucks and satellite uplinks.  It would
>more than likely have made the national news except for another event
>that day (April 19th, 1995) -- the bombing in Oklahoma City.
>Events which occurred on April 19th, historically:
>    The colonists met the British at Lexington and Concord.  The
>British were coming to disarm them.
>    The Germans and the ghettos.
>    The explosion in the gun turret on the U.S.S. Iowa killed 47
>    The governor of South Dakota died in a plane crash
>    The Gesta^H^H^H^H Government murdered the Branch Davidians.
>There is a jerk on the nets CLAIMING to be with the FBI.  He is saying
>things that contradict with the testimony of witnesses (see
>particularly around line 413 in this text).  Either he is a liar, or
>he is not with the FBI.  He either doesn't know what he is talking
>about, or he is lying.  If he IS with the FBI, he is either lying, or
>he is releasing (incorrect) information about a case that is not
>closed yet.  In any case, he is a lying jerk who should be ignored.
>Too bad there are far too many government employees like him.
>With any luck, after September 19 he and all of his fellow federal
>Gestapo stormtrooping baby-killing murderers will be out of
>employment.  No pensions, either, just out on their asses looking for
>real jobs and struggling to make it like the rest of us -- IF they are
>fortunate enough to get a job after people find out they are baby
>killers.  I hope most of them rot in jail for the rest of their
>natural lives.  The primary people (Ricks, Aguillera, etc.) should be
>executed (Texas has the death penalty).  Perhaps herd them into a
>barn, lock the doors, and set fire to it.
>Under no circumstances should any of them receive any pension or
>severance pay.  And that's just for the ones who were marginally
>involved.  Anyone who was involved in the murders and the cover-up and
>who has not come forward up to this point should be bodily removed
>from office or job and charged with complicity in at least 87 counts
>of first degree murder.
>-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
>->  Posted by: "J. Orlin Grabbe" <kalliste@aci.net>

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