Time: Wed Nov 27 18:22:38 1996
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 18:08:28 -0800
To: libertylaw@www.ultimate.org
From: Paul Andrew Mitchell [address in tool bar]
Subject: LLAW: U.S. v. Troescher
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<snip>
>> >> Ralph,
>> >>
>> >> What say you of the Privileges
>> >> and Immunities Clause (4:2:1)?
>> >>
>> >> /s/ Paul Mitchell
>> >>
>> >
>> >If I might interject, the privileges and immunities clause provides that
>> >states may not deny life, liberty or property rights to persons within
>> >the state which they secure to citizens of that state. The privileges and
>> >immunities clause of Sec. 1 of the 14th Amendment provided the same
>> >protection to freedmen (blacks).
>>
>> This provision is proof of two classes
>> of citizens, because otherwise there
>> would have been no need to repeat
>> the gurantee. Of course, the 14th
>> was never lawfully ratified. See
>> Dyett v. Turner.
>>
>> /s/ Paul Mitchell
>>
>I can't see that. Regardless of the proper ratification questions, the
>14th was only intended to secure basic rights granted by states to white
>citizens to the freedmen. I can't see that it creates another class of
>citizen.
>
>--Andrew Lehr
Your statement here is at odds with
literally dozens of state and federal
court decisions. The Alabama Supreme Court,
in particular, has held that there are
now "two classes" of citizens, in so
many words. See Gardina v. Board of
Registrars, 48 S. 788, 791 (1909).
Furthermore, that court held that one
class of citizenship may exist in a person
without the other. This is a very important
case, which has been recently resurrected
in Mike Kemp's defense against a conviction
for marijuana possession in that state.
See also State v. Fowler, 6 S. 602 (1889):
"... a person may be a citizen of a particular
state and not a citizen of the United States.
To hold otherwise would be to deny to the
state the highest exercise of its sovereignty, --
the right to declare who are its citizens." !!!
These cases are discussed at length in Chapter 11
of The Federal Zone.
/s/ Paul Mitchell
>
>>
>> >But life, liberty and property are basic rights predating the
>> >constitution, and the "privileges" referred to in the phrase "privileges
>> >and immunities" should not be confused with government-created "privileges."
>> >
>> >--Andrew Lehr
>>
>> Very good!
>>
>> "Congress ... cannot by legislation alter the
>> Constitution, from which alone it derives
>> its power to legislate, and within whose
>> limitations alone that power can be lawfully
>> exercised."
>>
>> Eisner v. Macomber, U.S. Supreme Court
>>
>> Thus, the term "privileges and immunities"
>> enjoys constitutional protection, because
>> it is found in the Organic Constitution
>> for the United States of America. Congress
>> can do nothing to alter this phrase. The
>> privileges which Congress creates are not
>> embraced by it.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >>Here is the Case referenced in the Troescher Decision...I love how these
>> >> >>idiots claim a Right secured by the 5th Amendment is a Privilege!!!!!!!
>> They
>> >> >>are going to declare and rename the Bill of Rights to the Bill of
>> >> >>Privileges!!! What is wrong with this picture??!!
>> >> ><snip>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Opinion by Judge Reinhardt
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>OPINION
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>REINHARDT, Circuit Judge:
>> >> >>>I.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>The general standard for a valid assertion of the Fifth
>> >> >>>Amendment privilege against self-incrimination is well established.
>> >> >
>> >> >You are right on target. For the folks that have civil rights, they only
>> >> >can have privileges "like" the folks with unalienable rights. This is
>> >> >stated in the 14th amendment and in the civil rights that was
displayed in
>> >> >the Revised Statutes in 1873.
>> >> >
>> >> >Also the Judge telleth the truth. It is only a privilege and not a right
>> >> >for the parties to whom this decision is pointed.
>> >> >
>> >> >Case in Point: There will never be any wins other than crumbs tossed to
>> >> >the lower peasants. You CAN NEVER WIN WITH A PRIVILEGE!!!!!
>> >> >
>> >> >I congradulate the fictional "judge" for telling the truth. If only we
>> >> >would get it.
>> >> >
>> >> >the best
>> >> >
>> >> >Ralph Kermit, Winterrowd
>> >> >citizen of the United States nunc pro tunc
>> >> >Citizen of the State of Kansas (equal footing with the original States)
>> >> >domiciled in the Territory of Alaska
>> >> >Born of natural born parents of the Posterity
>> >> >Sovereign State in Fact
>> >> >
>> >> >If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better
>> >> >than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We
ask not
>> >> >your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May
>> >> >your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget ye were our
>> >> >countrymen.
>> >> > Samuel Adams
>> >> >
>> >> >Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of
chains
>> >> >and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may
>> >> >take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death.
>> >> > Patrick Henry: Speech in the Virginia Convention, March 23,1775
>> >> >
>> >> >My Homepage is: http://www.alaska.net/~winter/jefferson.html
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ====================================================================
>> >> [Text is usually formatted in Courier 11 non-proportional spacing @]
>> >> [65-characters per line; .DOCs by MS-WORD for MS-DOS, Version 5.0B.]
>> >> Paul Andrew Mitchell, B.A., M.S., email address: pmitch@primenet.com
>> >> ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776, Tucson, Arizona state [We win]
>> >> We can decode all your byte streams, spaghetti code notwithstanding.
>> >> Coming soon: "Manifesto for a Republic" by John E. Trumane ie JetMan
>> >> ====================================================================
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ====================================================================
>> [Text is usually formatted in Courier 11 non-proportional spacing @]
>> [65-characters per line; .DOCs by MS-WORD for MS-DOS, Version 5.0B.]
>> Paul Andrew Mitchell, B.A., M.S., email address: pmitch@primenet.com
>> ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776, Tucson, Arizona state [We win]
>> We can decode all your byte streams, spaghetti code notwithstanding.
>> Coming soon: "Manifesto for a Republic" by John E. Trumane ie JetMan
>> ====================================================================
>>
>>
>
>
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[Text is usually formatted in Courier 11 non-proportional spacing @]
[65-characters per line; .DOCs by MS-WORD for MS-DOS, Version 5.0B.]
Paul Andrew Mitchell, B.A., M.S., email address: pmitch@primenet.com
ship to: c/o 2509 N. Campbell, #1776, Tucson, Arizona state [We win]
We can decode all your byte streams, spaghetti code notwithstanding.
Coming soon: "Manifesto for a Republic" by John E. Trumane ie JetMan
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