Re: An old tax forum, here you will find a lot of what you are looking for.

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Posted by continued on September 08, 1998 at 07:38:26:

In Reply to: Re: An old tax forum, here you will find a lot of what you are looking for. posted by continuation on September 08, 1998 at 07:34:30:

From: Franknshine
Date: 30-Sep-97

In spite of my negative words in my previous postintg, rest assured that I
continue to carry on this fight that I have waged for the past 12 years.
Although "frequent reader" has some excellent points about "attacking the
third party", I really think that writing your congressman is not going to
serve our purpose. Notice that all through these hearings, no congressman
has made even a hint of a statement that the IRS is not really a Federal
Agency. That fact alone leads me to believe that this is all window
dressing for some greater plan.

The third party tactic, however, is quite interesting. I have not file tax
returns in several years. The IRS corresponds with me regularly reminding
me of this fact, but I hold them off citing the law and they have never
actually done anything to me directly. They reach me very successfully
through third parties, such as the Credit Bureaus, My employer (although I
have found some who are enlightened and will cooperate with me), and the
County Recorder. I have decided that their third party attack on me can be
reversed, and that is where I will conentrate my near future efforts.
Thanks for the insights, friends


From: a frequent reader of this post <-- (click here to mail, if a proper
Date: 30-Sep-97

Now is the time. As anonomo or whatever said, Send e-mail to us reps.
Professional letters of where is the statue that makes me liable. How and
when was the Irs legall made a federal agency with jurisdiction in the
sovereign states. Where are the implementing regs. for lien, levy. You know
a legal argument; hit them withn it. Why don't these agents sign their
names with the penalty of perjury clause as required by IRC 6065.( How many
bogus letters have you recieved. Senate hearing with IRS agents report that
they sign bogus names to documents. Hit those agents, that are harrassing
you with letters threatening suit for their bogus actions. Read the last
taxpayer's bill of rights act and use it to tell them that they are
individually liable. Sue your bank for giving away your money because of
false levies, Sue your county recorder for posting illegal Fed. Liens. Talk
to your county district attourney about criminal charges for bogus liens
and seisures. Sue the tow truck companyn that stole your truck with qa
bogus levy. All these third parties will gladly send a letter to the IRS
stating your claim. Let them do it and give them 10 days to resolve your
complaint. You have educated them. Complaints by third parties get results
because the IRS does not want to allienate them.DO SOMETHING NOW. NOW IS
THE TIME. The illegal IRS is realing on teir heels. They are tyrants and
criminals and they need to be judged. Where has the oversight committe been
for twenty years. They need to be made to resign for derrellection of duty.
Archer should be ____, (hell I would get arrested for using that word). It
is time to spare no word and give your us reps hell. Heck, the us reps. are
crooks too and we all know that a real degenerate crook ( our politicians)
will turn on another crook in a minute. Write or E-mail these S.O.B.'s
today and let them know the code is bogus and the IRS is real bogus. AND
WITH THE CONSTITUTION (get rid of the Fed. Reserve.) WHEN DO WE DRAW THE
GOVERNMENT. PS I care! I have children that will suffer if I do nothing.WE
THE PEOPLE ARE THE SOVEREIGN and we need to get rid of the those that would
usurp our right to govern constitutionally. I have never owned a gun and
probably never will but I am now determined to put my efforts forth to form
a state malitia because of the actions of our govenment. Our government
gave citations of valor to agents involved in Ruby Ridge. The last word is


From: sam
Date: 29-Sep-97

Dear Anono, What are you refering to as far as throwing the bogus code at


From: anono
Date: 27-Sep-97

Now is the time to send info to u.s. reps about the bogus code statute.
When and where was the Irs instituted?

Throw th code at these people and show them how it fails to make you liable
and then what abuse is sufferewd


From: isaih
Date: 27-Sep-97

I have had my bank account levied, and now the IRS is assessing me upon
recordsof my closed out account. Should not thwy need some kind of warrant
to look through my accounts. I am going to court on the levy (small claims
court [$569.oo] . But who gave these tyrants the right to assess me on
information gleened from my bank transactions? Shouldn't they have a
warrant? I never saw anything from my bank that they werre taking info. Now
is the time to hit third party's giving away your money and info (senate
hearings). Should I sue or just press criminal charges


From: Dan2
Date: 24-Sep-97

Friend, I was reading your past posts, --it looks to me like some of the
best info I've come across so far--We all certainly appreciate the
excellent info that you have enlightened us with--one thing concerned me
though and that was that you wrote a 27 page "memo"/affadavit.. Will I need
a similar document to be successful like yourself? Do you suggest that
people like my self--newbies-- (just learning about this whole tax/imf
Citizenship/Constitional Rights stuff as of spring 1997) start the whole
process next year which only leaves me another 6 months until I become a
non-filer and have to defend my status and claims/(I mean force the IRS to
show proof) in the next few years? I know I have to get going on revoking
signatures, obtaining a SS letter that says I don't need a SSN, etc... Do
you think its enough time to grasp this stuff and begin the process (become
a non-filer)?

P.S. I have been an independent contractor for sometime and my client has
been paying w/o deductions for this whole year,its a shame but this year I
probably will not have the money to send my annual gift to trust fund 62.

Thanks again for sharing your experience and wisdom.


From: Franknshine
Date: 24-Sep-97

No one should get too excited about the hearings in D.C., or any other talk
(from Gingrich, for example) about scrapping the IRS. There isn't anyone in
Washington with the inclination or the power to disband the IRS and stop
the flow of money to the IMF. One really big clue is the Federal Reserve.
If the IRS is dismantled and the Federal Reserve remains intact, you can
bet they'll just come from another direction to steal your money. At best,
the IRS will be repackaged, renamed, and reactivated, with all the loop
holes closed (except for the sacred cows, the non-profit foundations).
Sorry for the negative cynicism, but my words are very close to the truth,
if not right on.


From: Friend
Date: 22-Sep-97

The Internal Revenue Manual “IRM has what? 20,000 pages plus in it, I
believe it would be a formidable task for anyone to obtain the whole thing.

All of you good people, listen carefully, you have no idea whatsoever who
or what you are dealing with, all of this turmoil you are so aggrieved
about, was set in stone long before most of you were born.

26 USC 7701 (18) International organization
The term "international organization" means a public international
organization entitled to enjoy privileges, exemptions, and immunities as an
international organization under the International Organizations Immunities
Act (22 U.S.C. 288-288f).

Bill Gates is worth about 30 plus billion on paper, but to tell you the
truth he’s nobody, that’s why the Gov. is always picking on him, he doesn’t
have any real clout with the big dogs. The big dogs are not billionaires,
in fact most of them on paper do not have a dime to their name, it’s all in
trust or an “Exempt International Organization” the truth is these folks
are trillionares they own almost everything including the technology you
are using on the internet, (a stolen technology that is almost forty years
old I might add).

The point I am trying to make is this YOU CAN’T BEAT THEM! But you can play
by their rules just like they do, you all probably pay more”INCOME” taxes
than they do simply because you don’t no what the rules are

The rules are simple, just maintain your affairs in such a way, so that you
are piss poor on paper, do not own or finance anything in your or any other
family members name, go offshore, get the right kind of trust, incorporate
in Nevada etc.

Guns are not going to do you any good, (especially against plasma riffles
and x-ray surveillance) they will just say you were a drug dealer, or a
terrorist suspect, then shoot you and take everything with there moral
justification as the TV laments over the poor BATF Officer you bruised when
you shot his bullet proof vest. They want you to get all fired up, They
want everyone to really hates the IRS so much, that everyone will support
that new flat tax concept, effectively raising the total tax rate in this
Country to about 70 % across the board, and guess what, it would be
Constitutionally legal and since no one seems to know how much they are
really paying in taxes, there wont be any opposition. Everyone will just be
sit-in around with their thumb up there nose wondering how come they are
always flat broke.

I m just as patriotic as the next guy and I have never needed a gun to
defend myself, but IM not stupid, to be perfectly honest if Mr. Man in
black came to my door tomorrow, and said that they would forget I ever
existed, wipe the slate clean if I just kept my mouth shut, Id do it. I
really would, just disappear in to the mist with the rest of the
Internationalists, yeah that’s the life for me.


From: hyjack
Date: 22-Sep-97

Before Iposteed the last message I sent a E-mail to my (sic) US senator
about my case with the IRS. This agency is satanic, and corrupt beyond
belief. Now is the time to stand against this tyrrantial agency. Hearings
are being held in the senate right now. E-mail your Senator. This is a
corrupt agency and that is only the beginning. Start to save America. Send
your stories of abuse tom your (sic) reps. now. Nail the IRS; now is the


From: hyjack
Date: 22-Sep-97

I am really in a sad mood obout the direction of our country and the
abusive nature of the Fed. Agencies.If the IRS or Batf comes to steal my
stuff; I wiil stand to the death. I bought my first gun (I fear guns;
didn't want to be around them, made me nervous).I Had to buy a (fearful
gun) to protect myself from my own government. I have and I will. SO YOU
family and my goods against you goons.The word is "PROTECT" and I will do
just that. "DO NOT TREAD ON ON ME"


From: freedog
Date: 21-Sep-97

Two years ago the IRS levied my bank account and now they are using my bank
records to assess me. Any idea about how to get my (ex) bank. The amount
levied would be small claims stuff for sure ( saw them coming). I cause the
bank more money than they gave away with my interrogatories which their
lawyers tried to answer. I do plan a small claims suitfor the levy but
would appreciate any more info as to make their life costly for giving away
my money and then giving away my records! 60 minutes nailed them tonight
with their report on IRS abuse. Write your (sic) us reps today about IRS
abuse. thanks for any info, Freedog. (super sight)


Date: 21-Sep-97

Dear Friend, Golly that saved me a few hours. Thanks a bunch. How about
getting ahold of the IRM as previously posted?


From: Friend
Date: 21-Sep-97

Look in the index in the back of 6209 for a reference to AMDISA, this
should answer your question.


From: hyjack
Date: 21-Sep-97

Dear Friend, In researching the 6209 I noticed much reference made to the
IRM in ex.: 12 .03 (1) a AIMF contains all data used by the AIMS system.
These data elements are described separately in IRM 3(25)86C). Any way to
get an IRM through a FOIA request. Also is there a sample diagram anywhere
in the 6209 manual describing where and what the differents entries are on
a tipical IMF and AIMS print out? Thanks


From: Friend
Date: 20-Sep-97

Why are you concerned about informers, why would your group not reflect
Constitutional principals and be open to everyone. Are you going to be
doing somthing unlawful? Maybe you could help some informers out of there
illusion, in fact why not invite them to your meetings.

I am not going to tell you where the following group constitution came
from, although I will say that it was created to stop the errosion of some
“other” groups

I suggest you pick a name that the media can’t pick on, like - Citizens for
Constitutional Justice. Remember the more you try to hide something, the
more people will become suspicious, and the more they will try to destroy
you out of there own fear. The Gov. hires masses of people to be its eyes
and ears ,You cannot win against the curiosity of the masses, but you can
wane their interest with open doors and windows and a lot of unending
boring talk.

Any and all claims made by any attendee or Director of CCJ with regard to
any documents, records, teachings, or things of any nature whatsoever as
provided by CCJ are to be construed as strictly informational only, anyone
of their own accord who acts in any manner with regard to such documents,
records, teachings, or things does so at their own risk, and further, it is
recommended that everyone take the time to verify all claims made.

Article I C.C.J. DEFINED
(A) Definition
CCJ, Citizens For Constitutional Justice A name beneath which an unlimited
number of Citizens of any State or States of the Several States of the
Union may gather to share and acquire knowledge and to speak their will as
one voice before the government or public.

(B) What CCJ is NOT
CCJ is not anti Government nor is CCJ a Militia, tax protesters,
belligerents, conscientious objectors, detective agency or any type of
Religious organization. CCJ has no sworn affiliation to any anyone, or

(C) CCJ State Teams
CCJ is divided up into groups of the sovereign people of a respective
dejure State, and are know as CCJ State Teams. Just as the Several States
of the Union are sovereign unto themselves, these teams are separate and
distinct entities unto themselves.

(D) Primary goal
CCJ's primary goal is to help Citizens and public officials understand the
form and functions of our government. We teach from the Constitution of the
united States of America, the U.S. Code, the Code of Federal Regulations
and the laws of your sovereign State.

(E) Black-letter-law
It is only with strict adherence to uncolorable, black-letter-law and
indisputable fact that the State CCJ Teams shall act and petition as CCJ.

(F) Free choice
It is the free choice of each Citizen to participate within his or her CCJ
State team, without prejudice to their individual rights.

(G) Encouragement policy
It shall be the policy of each CCJ State Team to encourage each and every
Citizen to learn the truths and dispel the misconceptions about the laws of
this nation. CCJ shall encourage Citizens to write their Government
representatives with confidence; to take responsibility as the sovereign
people of their Country; to maintain the right to question, verify and
defend themselves against any demand placed upon them, or their family.

(H) No State Team name or insignia
No CCJ State Team shall have or bear any kind of Team name or insignia,
except for the CCJ approved emblem. This identifier is only to be used for
communications between respective State Teams and during correspondence
with state and national government officials. This is to protect CCJ State
Teams from undue and potentially harmful harassment.

(I) No Roster shall be Maintained
CCJ State Teams shall refrain from keeping a roster of those who do, or
wish to attend any meetings or classes, all meetings and classes are to
remain strictly open forum, no restrictions shall be levied beyond those
already stated herein.

(J) Limit discussion to law
CCJ State Teams shall behave as teachers of law. We shall limit our
materials and discussion to law.

(K) Policy regarding inflammatory statements
It is the policy of CCJ to refrain from any type of bigotry, racism,
scandalous claims, disparaging statements, or concepts. No teaching
materials or publications will be allowed that could be construed to
violate this policy.

(L) Policy regarding tabloid theorems
From time to time CCJ State Teams may discuss tabloid conspiracy theorems,
however, we shall take no stand as to the validity of such theorems, unless
there is indisputable fact in evidence to prove such validity. Further,
that it must also fall within the purview of something we can change by
lawful means.

(M) No monetary obligation
All Citizens are welcome to any CCJ State meeting regardless of their
cultural background or beliefs. There shall be NO monetary obligation
merely to attend. Donations are acceptable.

(A) Media allowed to attend
CCJ encourages any representative of the media or government to attend any
CCJ State Team meeting, without appointment. It isn't necessary for them to
tell you who they are. You must honor their Right to Privacy, but they must
honor yours as well. Let them know they are always welcome.

(B) Media accommodation
The media shall not be allowed to interrupt any assemblage of a CCJ State
Team, whether it be an instructional class, or merely a gathering. If the
media representatives are disruptive, ask them kindly to make an
appointment so that their questions might be answered at a later time.
Stand firm. Do not deviate from the agenda, regardless the scope of their

(C) Spokespersons
No fewer than three learned, majority approved, volunteer CCJ State Team
Citizens shall be present at any interview held by a representative of the
media, or the Government. Answers to questions shall be concise,
indisputably factual, and within the scope of CCJ's purpose. Keep comments

(D) Correspondence, pre-approval
All official CCJ correspondence shall be pre-approved by at least three
learned, CCJ Team Citizens, including at least one director. The final
copies of the correspondence shall be made available to all team members
generally, at the next class.

(A) No CCJ State Team or Director shall attempt to compel any Citizen to
choose a side or station. This is the Right of the Private Citizen and not

(A) Vestment of authority
No CCJ State Team shall ever vest their authority within one Citizen
(including Directors), nor shall any CCJ State Team delegate authority
among the several sovereign people. All activities are voluntary. By
majority, each CCJ State Team shall approve all volunteers by majority.

(B) No unaccompanied representation
No one Citizen of his, or her own accord shall ever stand alone on behalf
of a CCJ State Team in the face of adversity (excepting in extraordinary
circumstance as may be pre approved by the CCJ State Team in majority)
without the presence and aid of the CCJ State Team spokespersons [as
defined in Article (2) paragraph (C)]. Nor shall they ever seek to profit
from CCJ or a CCJ State Team, for if they choose do so, they stand not as
representatives of CCJ or any CCJ State Team, and shall not be recognized
as such under public scrutiny.

Article V MONEY
(A) Accountability of funds
CCJ and any CCJ State Team by majority rule may, at its discretion, seek to
raise funds by lawful means. The security and accountability of the funds
collected shall be the responsibility of the originating Director of the
respective CCJ Team class. Funds from multiple independent Team classes can
be pooled to achieve some common State goal, however, no treasury or
general fund nationally or locally shall be established. All funds
collected and records thereof shall remain accessible to the respective CCJ
State Team for inspection.

(B) Financial dealings
CCJ and any CCJ State Team shall, whenever possible, conduct its financial
dealings in lawful gold and silver money.

(C) Dues, fees, or penalties
Neither CCJ nor any CCJ State Team shall have the right to impose dues,
fees, or penalties upon the several Citizens of a CCJ State Team. Nor shall
C.C.R, or any director thereof, enter into any contract with a Citizen of
the Several States of the Union. Notwithstanding, Citizens may still
contract among themselves, as is their Constitutional Right.

(A) Definition
The term "Director" shall be construed to mean and include a teacher, aid,

(B) Directors appointed
Directors of CCJ shall be appointed by the respective State team. There is
no limit to the number of Directors per team, however, the originating
Director shall take precedence, unless specified otherwise within these
Articles. Those Citizens who feel they are qualified may approach the team
for possible appointment

(C) Director's duty
It shall be the duty of the Directors to maintain the focus of the class on
the given topic. The topic should be taught as a class, with the intent of
achieving some goal. The curriculum shall be specified clearly, showing the
incremental steps and hurdles that need to be overcome to achieve the goal.

(D) Director's objective
The objective of the Director is to "graduate" CCJ Team students to the
level of Director.

(E) Frequency of classes
It is the Directors responsibility to establish the frequency, location and
duration of a given CCJ Team class.

(F) Price list for products
Directors shall attain no station over any Citizen, and shall provide to
all CCJ Team attendees a current list of available materials and prices for
all books, documents, services, and things without alteration. All prices
for products, will be established and regulated by the originating

(G) Acronyms and verbiage
Except for the acronym CCJ, all Representatives and Directors shall refrain
from the use of acronyms on all documents and correspondence. All verbiage
used must be construed in such a way as to be understandable by someone of
average intelligence.

(H) Directors shall not withhold
Directors shall not withhold any information, documents or things, from the
scrutiny of the Several Citizens of any CCJ Team.

(I) Ideas, suggestions, or complaints.
Directors shall hew to the will of the Citizens by majority within each and
every CCJ Team, as to which topics are of greatest importance to the
Citizens of each CCJ Team. Each CCJ State Team Citizen shall retain the
right to interject opinions and comments for consideration by the
Directors. Each CCJ State Team Citizen shall also retain the right to
contact the CCJ Representative in their area directly, regarding questions,
ideas, suggestions, or complaints.


Subject: RE: IMF & CFR
From: denny-dimwitt
Date: 19-Sep-97

Try "IMF" & "CFR"


Date: 19-Sep-97

Anybody have any idea where I can go on the net to get the names of the
members of th of the CFR ,IMF and the World bank.These people need to be
exposed and villianfied in our local medias ( especially when they live
amongst us)


From: freeman
Date: 19-Sep-97

STRADEGY: Sue the bank in small claims court for small amount of money
levied from me . Hit the county recorder with certification issue. File
charges with local D.A for computer fraud , theft, constructive
fraud,(IMF,etc. false activity, not required to file, etc.), frivolous
lien. Civil and criminal charges! Where do I get beat. And why. And how
about these charges filed by more than one person as a class action suit
STEAL PROPERTY. Any imput would be welcome. PS Ihave lost my auto to these
people and I am sure they would have raped my girls if no one could have
witnessed it. God forgive them.


Date: 19-Sep-97

I just spent 4 hours researching this site. Amazing stuff! Great info! I
would like to ask one simple question. We are forning a patriot group and I
would like to make sure their are no informers or agents attending. Could I
hand out a form to be filled out that would protect the group. Everyone
sighs under penalty of perjury that they are not an adversary. Does anyone
have maby an idea on this subject.? What possibly should such a questioneer
say to protect our selves from the ever present snooping of the Feds? I
have copied all of your postings (best info on the net) and will make
copies for interested parties. Thanks, Abraham's son


From: Hyjack
Date: 18-Sep-97

I am glad the Friend is back and, informative, authoritive, and as
contanckereous as ever. Thanks for your post on the Rev. Rul. Denny. All
this info is going to be put to use by our group of independent sovereign
wage earners known to the IRS as Dealers in Foreign Securities, Pistol and
hand gun manufacturers etc.


From: Friend
Date: 17-Sep-97

Denny Dimwitt,
thanks for posting Revenue Ruling. # 71-466, 1971, 2CB 409. you seem to be
making quite a few assumptions about this site, you are making demands, but
it does not sound like you have taken the time to go back and read all the
prior postings, before you make final judgments take the car for a spin,
maybe its not a lemon after all.

Constitutionally we are all taxpayers, but then again people in France are
also taxpayers, there is an abundant number of ways to argue this, but
still the fact remains you are a taxpayer. Every time you by a loaf of
bread you are paying tax to the Fed, A gallon of gas really only costs
.$.47 cents per , the rest is Fed and State taxes. The point is not whether
you are a taxpayer or not, but if you have taxable “INCOME” and if so what
class of tax was that “INCOME” derived from ? If you have no taxable
“INCOME” then you are probably not “engaged in a trade or business” (look
it up) now we have all been through this a zillion times, Deny sounds like
an honest hard working guy with lots of experience, but he like every one
else keeps attacking the SYMPTOM, so you’ve got levy’s and liens coming out
of your ears, so what! Do what I say, go to court just like I laid out In a
nut shell, how to do this is not any great mystery, you don’t need a box
car load of cases, you just need your documents showing what the IRS claims
you are how they penalized your thereafter, your correspondence showing
your reasonable attempts to correct the situation, their response if any
etc...When the IRS refuses to answer the court order, then go after them,
sue sue sue, the judge will have no choice but to stand on your side of the
fence at this juncture, because they refused his order. You probably wont
get any kind settlement out of the IRS for lost earnings and emotional
distress because the IRS will just go OOP’s sorry there was a computer
mistake (I have seen guys who won a judgment against the IRS receive a
check from them that was NSF) the judge will feel sorry for them, unless
they have taken something of yours and sold it, in that case you will
probably get your house back / car etc...or reasonable market value for the
same, plus damages.

After court mopping up the mess is relatively easy because you have court
documents backing you up. If for example a credit reporting agency refuses
to remove any derogatory info with regard to all of this, go back to the
same judge and make an issue about how your Private life is being
compromised, by bullies and thugs, sue the reporting agency, it will never
go to court they will back

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